Curse

Sarevok Thordin · Jul 24, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

The reason I made a mention of SoL and smite is they deal extra damage when an enemy is attacking, and QUITE alot too (considering it is ignoring armor).

Watching shock wars in observer mode. 9 times out of 10 they will frenzy the INSTANT they can after shock finishes. A hidden smiter listening to the player who has been shocked can capitalise by launching the two attacks quickly so that they both impact as close to each other as possible while the warrior is spiking. They can take A CRAPLOAD of damage before anyone knows what is going on, and afterward the warrior will be hesitant and unsure about another shock frenzy.

Yes it's a small window of oppertunity, but what isn't in gws.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 24, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

The reason I made a mention of SoL and smite is they deal extra damage when an enemy is attacking, and QUITE alot too (considering it is ignoring armor).

Watching shock wars in observer mode. 9 times out of 10 they will frenzy the INSTANT they can after shock finishes. A hidden smiter listening to the player who has been shocked can capitalise by launching the two attacks quickly so that they both impact as close to each other as possible while the warrior is spiking. They can take A CRAPLOAD of damage before anyone knows what is going on, and afterward the warrior will be hesitant and unsure about another shock frenzy.

Yes it's a small window of oppertunity, but what isn't in gws.

Pst, cancel stance.

Anyways, the only character you would run SoL or smite is on an AoE smiting monk (other smiting builds are just crap), and their skillbar is tight as my pants on an elephant either way.

crimsonfilms · Jul 24, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Casual players should rejoice. With the new premades you can actually learn and progress in PvP instead of 'tanking your Wa/Mo' to victory.

The only thing the old premade was good for was temporarily unlocking an elite skill for PvP.

And who cares if they are original. This is PvP - a competition to win. This is not a Fine Arts class. Be original where it counts. WTF - should I swing the bat with my feet because it is original?

Age · Jul 24, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by overclocked

FYI - shock axe wars, with fenzy have been popular for about a year.

After awhile it makes for a very boring build much like Iway .I don't mind axes but I prefer swords.

overclocked · Jul 25, 2006, 03:31 AM // 03:31

no one is about to shoot down a smart or informed idea about a skill,Sarevok Thordin, but you said amounts to frenzy sucking and that sol and smite(the spell) are good counters to a increased rush of frenzy warriors were going to see...

Frenzy has been then staple of the warrior meta game since the beta, and probally the alpha, it the best skill for what it does, period. Claiming the opposite is to blatently worng that people will tell you so.

The skill smite, is not a viable counter to a frenzy warrior, which btw is about 95-99% of all warriors in the entire GVG ladder, because...

stances cancle stances so by the time your first attack hits a competent warrior cancels sprint. For your attack to work you need 4 or 5 smites hitting at once which is called a spike. Competent Warriors dont use frenzy aginst spikes without prot spells on themselves and normally just not at all.

So theres no reason your statements make any sense, hench the resonse. No ones close minded here, just opposed to mistruths.

We all want more variety, and unfortunatly anet needs to buff old skills or we have to buy new chapters for that to happen...

Abdul · Jul 25, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

This is one small step to making PvP more accessible to newcomers. I hope Anet puts these builds in soon, it is something they should have done ages ago. A new player that wants to jump into PvP has to put up with horribly ineffective builds like the Spell Slasher and Paladin, and the very slow faction unlock rate.

All the friends I have tried to get into the game, gave up early because of they got stuck using gimped builds, and did not want to spend days grinding faction before they could unlock the required skills for a decent build and the runes/mods to go with it. Having to win 5 times in a row in RA before unlocking TA did not help either. I will be making another attempt to bring them into GW once the new premades are in.

shardfenix · Jul 25, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

In the past, GW had premades that were good, but not at expert level skill requirement. I think giving top-level builds to newbies is a bad idea. The only 3 I could see being premades are the ones that involve all skills (I think the air ele, blessed light monk, and the mesmer thing.)

Kalki · Jul 25, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

New premades are excellent. Only 12 though? I wonder what will happen to the old premades, since they're outdated, and never were really any good to begin with. I hope the old ones end up trashed (sorry to those that made them... at least update them), and beginners don't have a chance to take them and get slaughtered. Still only 12 premades with no necro primary's seems a bit sparse.

Thanks EW guild

Good luck in Germany!

Tark Alkerk · Jul 25, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

could this be the end of the paladin?

you can complain that these prebuilds have been nerfed over the years,
but by far they didn't get as nerfed as hard os one of the orignal pre-builds.
if you were going to play it again you would need to take 2 elites.

although yay for the updated boon prot, which i still attribute to Fi annna with there, Fi Boon healer.
and now that shock wars are now a prebuild, it doesn't make much diffrance anyways, people have been using them for ages and will continue using them and there varouis varritions.

Former Ruling · Jul 25, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furfoot

They tried to implement popular builds before but failed due to lack of input from the real players.

Still a fact that they gimp builds to promote buying/unlocking the good ones.

Even ones submitted by guilds and such aren't awesome.

Like your assassin for a quick example, as a Premade, would definately lose Aura (already a premade with it) and replace with like..death's charge or something, and it'd be given a Crappy dagger attack elite.

*lemming* · Jul 25, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

EW pwns.

Considering how useful these builds are in the current metagame, these new prebuilds should pass for the "Tournament Edition" that the pvp community agitates for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

The Crip Ranger I would rather use punishing shot.

Er, doesn't that defeat the purpose of running a cripshot ranger?

-Loki- · Jul 25, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by overclocked

FYI - shock axe wars, with fenzy have been popular for about a year.

Well, they used to be Gale Axe Warriors, but yeah.

Longasc · Jul 25, 2006, 11:57 AM // 11:57

I still cannot agree to the many positive reactions to the builds.

These builds are good, I would even say too good and too specialized. Can I really go out in RANDOM ARENA with these builds? I think people should adjust these builds to be useful for RA, TA and GvG. It is too limiting to make PREMADE builds that only work in one environment. This misses the point of premades.

JR's Blessed Light Monk and Blinding Prodigy are fine builds that work, but there are some that are just too specialized.

Warrior's Anguish
http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/guild...uild-1595.html

No self-heal. This is a team build for someone who already knows what he is supposed to do. Chances for new player to get educated? Useable for the Randoma Arena?

Energy Denied
http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/guild...uild-1594.html
No Rez Signet and no self-heal. This is a good build, but it is too specialized. The ideal build for a starter to check RA and get a bloody nose.

Tainted Ally
http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/guild...uild-1596.html
Team build. Not self sufficient. How specialized must it be, this is not a viable way to show someone the abilities of the char class.

Hit Divine Boon is quite okay, though the lack of a Rez Signet again suggests that RA and use in more than in the group environment it was designed for was not deemed necessary.

The Assassin build is also sent out into the fray without any source of healing. True, you do not need that as long as you have a monk.

These players are forced to add some healing themselves or simply get educated to quit in RA if there is no monk in their team.

Hey, do not get me wrong, these builds are smart. But if they replace the old builds that are considered sub par, players will have an even harder time to get into the game with them. They are written for advanced players and do not have basics like self-heal and rez that new and casual players will miss much more, as if they have a whole team to support them that knows what to do. Some of these builds are totally useless in RA, this got totally neglected.

Instead of weaker, but more general builds that work all the time so-so, these builds are too often highly effective but also highly specialized builds that are designed for higher level PvP and not for starters.

I do not oppose the introduction of these builds, but they also need some viable and easy builds for starters. Nobody belittles himself by creating such a build.

crimsonfilms · Jul 25, 2006, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Hit Divine Boon is quite okay, though the lack of a Rez Signet again suggests that RA and use in more than in the group environment it was designed for was not deemed necessary.

Monks don't ever carry res in PvP unless you are a midline/smite monk. So I am unsure why you think it 'suggest that RA'
If anything, it lacks Prot Spirit.

Something to remember is that you can easily switch 1-2 skill to make them approriate for 4v4 or 8v8.
For the Energy Denial - just remove the hard res to a soft res and remove one of the energy management for Ether Feast - now you got a 4v4 build.

lyra_song · Jul 25, 2006, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

Well, they used to be Gale Axe Warriors, but yeah.

At least IWAY isnt in there....

Sakashi · Jul 25, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Most of the builds submitted are fairly common anyway so i don't mind them being used.

What I do think, is the builds need to state where they should be used in the description.

Blinding Prodigy - Heal Party in RA? this is clearly a GVG build.
Energy Denial - No real self defense at all, will be torn apart in RA in seconds.

E.G

Used in :

RA
Frenzy Theory
Hot Stepper
Cripshot Ranger
Final Master
JR's Blessed Light Monk
Hit Divine Boon

TA

Frenzy Theory
Hot Stepper
Cripshot Ranger
Final Master
Warrior's Anguish
JR's Blessed Light Monk
Hit Divine Boon

AVA

Frenzy Theory
Final Master
Cripshot Ranger
Tainted Ally
Air of Smite
Hit Divine Boon

HA

Frenzy Theory
Energy Denied
Tainted Ally
Air of Smite

GVG

Frenzy Theory
Blinding Prodigy
Energy Denied
Final Master
Air of Smite

JR · Jul 25, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

It deeply offends me that you limited my build to RA and TA.

And to be honest I think your classifications are way off anyway. Any of the builds submitted are really viable in any form of PvP, baring those without self heals being decent in RA... but who cares about RA. Some of them may be less suitable; for example Tainted Flesh is really a waste of an elite in TA, but they are the exceptions not the rule.

yesitsrob · Jul 25, 2006, 06:06 PM // 18:06

well... he also didn't include the standard boon monk that everyone uses in GVG in the gvg section.. Hit Divine Boon

.. and didn't include the crip shot for that matter.

Quote:

Hit Divine Boon is quite okay, though the lack of a Rez Signet again suggests that RA and use in more than in the group environment it was designed for was not deemed necessary.

I don't even think in RA a boon monk should be taking a res sig. They need to be as self sufficient as possible because pretty much everyone in RA has the MONK FIRST mentality, I'd say you're better off with having all 8 skills. When will you really get the time to res as a solo monk anyway?

I think have the builds somewhat specialized may get people to wonder why they are good.... Frenzy will be such a shock to so so many RA players, but ultimately it may get some of them to actually think why it's good, and where it's good

crimsonfilms · Jul 25, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

I think people should really get off the 'not good for RA' mentality. This is why so many people do not enjoy PvP much. They limit themself to the worse PvP part of GW.

Sakashi - I think you still miss the point of premades. Its a starting ground - a gateway to PvP.
The previous premades where so bad that it began a generation of Healing Hand Wa/Mos. Most of them never understanding the mechanics of GW PvP. It lead to more 'original' bad builds than effective builds - even if they are cookie cutters (remember the point of PvP is to WIN. No one ever says 'Wow - that losing build is awesome because it has style.'

These new premades are much more flexible and teaches people why a snare and healing signet is 10x better than Healing Hands - for almost any build - not just Wa/Mos.
It teaches why monks are better with energy management. Hell I think you just learned, BECAUSE of THE NEW PREMADE, that monks should never carry res in PvP (with some rare exceptions of course).

Sakashi · Jul 25, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

It deeply offends me that you limited my build to RA and TA.

And to be honest I think your classifications are way off anyway. Any of the builds submitted are really viable in any form of PvP, baring those without self heals being decent in RA... but who cares about RA. Some of them may be less suitable; for example Tainted Flesh is really a waste of an elite in TA, but they are the exceptions not the rule.

Sorry JR. To be honest monk is the one profession i really don't play much of so i wasn't trying to offend your build. I just don't know how well it performs elsewhere ok.

So although my judgement might be a _little_ off you can agree certain builds are suited better in a specific arena, and i thought it would be worth mentioning for new players using pre-mades.
But now comparing them with the old pre-mades these are very flexible builds that can be a good choice for pretty much any PvP.